HR Basics For Business with Mary Norman

In today's episode of The Gateway Connection Podcast, Joey O'Hern is joined by Mary Norman, Human Resources Director at CARC. Listen in as they discuss the basics of human resources as well how to find, retain, and develop great employees.

Thank you for listening today, and thank you to Security Safe for their support of the Gateway Connection Podcast! For more ways to connect with us, visit lnk.bio/gatewaychamber.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Invest in your leaders is number one. Some people call them managers, other call them directors, supervisors, because I think value goes a long way. If you tell somebody consistently in a group, hey, I appreciate you, they accept that. But if you give them a handwritten note, which takes five minutes of our time, absolutely, offer them the same opportunities. Not only do you want to invest in them, but you want to provide them opportunities for growth. Show them recognition, make them seem valuable, and not just seem, make them feel it.

SPEAKER_00 0:26

Welcome to the Gateway Connection Podcast, where we connect you with the movers, shakers, and leaders shaping our region. I'm Joey O'Hearn, Executive Director of the Chamber, and your host. Let's get started. We're joined today by Mary Norman, an accomplished human resources executive whose work is grounded in one guiding philosophy: people, passion, and purpose. Mary brings extensive experience helping organizations align their people's strategies with business success. In addition to her role as human resources director, she serves as immediate past president of SHRM North Florida Central Chapter and currently as the SHRM Florida State Council Foundation Director, where she helps advance workforce development initiatives and strengthen the HR profession across the state. She's also the founder of Circle M Consulting, where she works with organizations on HR strategy, leadership development, and building strong work-based cultures to drive engagement and growth. Throughout her career, Mary has focused on talent acquisition, employee engagement, leadership coaching, HR compliance, and culture transformation, serving as a trusted advisor to leaders and teams navigating change. Mary, welcome to the show.

SPEAKER_02 1:34

Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_00 1:35

I'm so excited that you're here. Mary is like the local HR expert, in my opinion, and probably the unofficial HR expert for myself. And HR is one of those things that transparently a lot of our businesses locally, there's not an HR person on staff. There's not an HR department. Most people are running their businesses and they are also the HR person. So I'm glad you're here today to kind of talk about those things. So speaking of those businesses, those that don't have a dedicated HR department, where are the most important HR basics that they need to get right from day one?

SPEAKER_02 2:03

So I think the biggest mistake is waiting until you have a problem. You should have someone readily available you can call, whether it's me or someone else in the community, waiting until you have that issue on hand or that fire that needs to be put out, you're past where you need someone to be great in the mix of knowing the next steps to take.

SPEAKER_00 2:19

I've heard you say before regarding issues in the workplace that if you didn't document it, it didn't happen. Absolutely. Talk about that.

SPEAKER_02 2:27

Documentation is key. You want to keep yourself out of any kind of trouble, whether it's with your employees or legal, documentation is going to be your best friend. And yes, it takes time. Don't do it in the heat of the moment where your emotions are involved. It may be jotting down a few points and coming back coming back to it to fill in the gaps when you can think exactly what took place, your side, their side, and of course everything that happened in between. It's completely imperative. It's it's one of the biggest things that I think a lot of businesses and HR people, we talk about it, we breathe it, we do it, but in the moment it's not what we want to focus on.

SPEAKER_00 3:01

For sure. And is that when you say document, is that just like informal notes, a sign form between the employer and the employee? What does that look like? Okay.

SPEAKER_02 3:09

So for me, if I'm going to have, if I have a conversation with an employee and it's not a disciplinary or a documented conversation, I may just throw some notes on a word document and save it to my desktop in a specific file. If it's a disciplinary thing, it's going to be on a documented form. I write what we are going to talk about, and then I give the employee the opportunity to at the bottom of the sheet or on the back or however many sheets they may need to provide their essentially their side of the story or whatever they want their notes to look like. Most of them just say, yes, this is what has happened. By the time they get to me, they know they kind of know where they've either messed up or need to be coached to not have that issue again.

SPEAKER_00 3:45

But is it part of that having HR policies in place to say if an issue arises, this is the process and procedures that we follow to get to that point?

SPEAKER_02 3:52

Yes, but if you don't have somebody, you don't have this policies.

SPEAKER_00 3:55

Very true. So what are some of the most common HR mistakes you see small businesses making and how can they avoid them?

SPEAKER_02 4:01

I think the biggest one is not treating every employee consistently. We want flexibility because no two people are the same. We're human, but not having the consistency, and a lot of that is policy and procedure driven. But we also live in a small town. So if we're gonna talk like city, everybody knows somebody and you may hire family, you may give them a little bit more leeway than you would somebody else. That's gonna come back. You're gonna lose trust in your employees that are watching, and you're gonna lose trust in your company.

SPEAKER_00 4:26

Well, and also I feel like in our local small town market, a lot of our businesses are typically less than 10 employees and a lot of time less than five. So you do become a family. So it becomes hard to enforce things with your family or he's saying discipline, but like discipline your family because on one end, you work so closely that you know them on a personal level. But as a business owner, there's also things that have to be done and a profit to be made. Right. And it's hard to enforce that across the board. I don't know if you want to elaborate on that.

SPEAKER_02 4:50

So yeah, I would say a lot of it comes to liability. If you as a business owner, people in the community want you want them to come to you for whatever your business is marketing. But if you have employees that aren't being held accountable, people talk.

SPEAKER_00 5:01

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 5:02

And if they know that you're allowing two of your five to essentially run the show their way and they're not doing it the way that's your way, that's gonna reflect on you.

SPEAKER_00 5:10

When it comes to hiring, what actually helps small businesses attract and land better employees in today's market?

SPEAKER_02 5:16

I think culture. I think allowing them the opportunity to grow. I think transparency and a lot of that for years we didn't transparency was not a thing. It's we're not gonna give any information until we know that the candidate is solid and there are. Absolutely. I think now we have to provide those kind of things in order for them to see why we want them. They want a purpose to be there, they want to be valued, they want to know what we are going to provide for them to show up to work every day.

SPEAKER_00 5:41

Absolutely. I read an article recently that said during the Great Recession, it was three people for every one job, and now it's turned and it is three jobs for every one person. And companies are having to become more transparent on not just their culture, but like their benefits package and what the everyday is like to retain that good talent. Yep.

SPEAKER_02 5:58

So I gave a presentation earlier this month for a Sherm chapter, and it was one person for every 110 jobs open in the market. That is huge, and you still can't find talent.

SPEAKER_00 6:09

And I've seen great jobs be posted online, either on the chamber job board or on LinkedIn that weave out simple things like compensation. Obviously, depending on skills and work history, education, et cetera, compensation can be negotiated. But I've seen great people pass on great roles because it's so vague on like, what makes the company? What's the compensation like? What's the workflow gonna be like? What is the team like, etc.? Absolutely. So, what are a few interview questions or hiring practices you would strongly advise businesses to avoid?

SPEAKER_02 6:38

I like this question and I don't like this question. Okay. And I think I don't like it because, like we talked about, we're a small community and everybody knows everybody. But I think the biggest one is asking questions that can get you in legal trouble. And in conversation, if the employee tells you those things, it's one thing. But if you come out and ask them, it's a big no-no. Gender, race, if you have kids, your ethnicity, are you married? Those kind of questions, whether you know them or not, you can't ask those.

SPEAKER_00 7:02

Right.

SPEAKER_02 7:03

Awkward silence, the employee will fill those things in and tell you everything you want to know and probably some things you don't want to know. For sure. Because it's uncomfortable for them.

SPEAKER_00 7:12

For sure. Employer intention is obviously also a major challenge. What are a few things that businesses can do to keep those good employees?

SPEAKER_02 7:19

Invest in your leaders is number one all the way. And I don't care if it is if you're the executive director and you have a C-suite or you have some people call them managers, other call them directors, supervisors, offer them the same opportunities. Not only do you want to invest in them, but you want to provide them opportunities for growth. Show them recognition, make them seem valuable and not just seem, make them feel it. Because I think value goes a long way. If you tell somebody consistently in a group, hey, I appreciate you, they accept that. But if you give them a handwritten note, which takes five minutes of our time, absolutely, that goes so much further. And it's the small things that allow them, they talk, it will draw people to your business as well.

SPEAKER_00 7:56

Absolutely. And again, in a small town professionally, people know everybody and you want people to have that good word of mouth for your company. People want to do business with people and specifically with good people. How important is culture in a small business? And what are simple ways that businesses can begin intentionally building that culture?

SPEAKER_02 8:14

So I think culture is huge when it comes to any kind of business, but small business specifically. And I think say what you mean and mean what you say. So if we're going to push that, we're going to provide XYZ and we're going to do all these great things, make sure you can back it up. You have to follow through. Don't oversell yourself because then your employees are going to see the writing on the wall. The other piece is building trust and open communication. Trust goes a long way. It's also word of mouth. And communication, if they can come to you good, bad, ugly, or indifferent and feel like you hear what they say and not just push them out the door, they're going to want to stay and work for you.

SPEAKER_00 9:01

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SPEAKER_02 9:32

I think key ones if you don't have a full-fledged handbook are going to be job descriptions with clear expectations, processes or procedures. You can call them policies if you'd like. Some of them are all built in together and attendance and disciplinary, I think, are key. Because if you have someone who does not show up routinely and they always leave work at the same time every day, so you're eight to four, they show up at 8 45, they are out at four o'clock. You have a problem. It's not going to fix itself because you've communicated it enough. You're going to have to do something different. And if you have nothing in writing to back up why you're doing this, you don't have a leg to stain on. It's documentation again.

SPEAKER_00 10:06

And though Florida is an adults state, documentation you feel is still important for what reasons?

SPEAKER_02 10:12

Documentation is key. It supports what you're doing, why you're doing it, the day that it occurs. So when I put documentation together, Florida's right to work state, but I still feel if this person decides, okay, I'm going to have no call, no show for three days, this is what it should happen. They should not be able to return to work. They automatically get terminated. And then they come back to work five or six days later and they bring you a doctor's note. That's a conversation to be had. Documentation all along the way, though, is still needs to occur, regardless of what they bring to you. And every case for that is going to be a little bit different. But having the documentation supports why you decide to do those things. So in two weeks, when the employee does it again and you decide, okay, we've had enough and we're going to term them and they go file unemployment, let's say, you have documentation to say, this is why we did what we did, because they're going to ask your side of the story. They're also going to ask theirs. And then it will be up to them essentially.

SPEAKER_00 10:59

And I think a lot of people get wrapped up in that Florida's an Apple state. And it's like, well, I can just let anybody go whenever I want. And so I'll take into consideration the other side of that of that documentation of support it if they try to file for unemployment. Correct. So if a business owner has never built an employee handbook, what's the best way to start writing one without getting overwhelmed?

SPEAKER_02 11:16

Phone a friend. Great advice. I am always available. But if you, if that's not in, let's just say budget, or that's not where you want to start and you want to essentially attempt to do this, small pieces. What is important? Value, mission should be in the very beginning. Kind of what your company does or where you see it growing, some goals potentially, then policies that are important. Dress code, attendance, code of conduct, those kind of things. Eat the elephant in small bites is what we always say. Do it in small chunks and don't try to sit down and do half of it in one day and half in another. Truly take the time to do it if that's what you feel you need to do for your business.

SPEAKER_00 11:50

For sure. And I know for those of you who are listening or chamber members, we have access to those sort of documents that we can pass along to you. We say that all the time. Like it may not be a perfect fit for your business. It is at least a great starting point. If you could give one piece of HR advice that every small business owner should implement immediately, what would it be?

SPEAKER_02 12:06

So I actually have a couple. Number one is going to be review your current documents, policies, procedures, handbook if it hasn't been reviewed in the last five years, should be priority.

SPEAKER_00 12:15

Step point five is go find your handbook. That's 20 years old.

SPEAKER_02 12:18

Exactly. The other is don't wait until you have a problem to ask for help. Yes. There's, and it doesn't, like I said, it doesn't have to be me, but we have resources in our community that are willing to say, hey, you should start here, or let me connect you with somebody who can help you or tell you who to start with.

SPEAKER_00 12:32

So last question we ask all of our guests as we wrap up. What is one business or leadership tip you've lived by or had to learn the hard way?

SPEAKER_02 12:39

So I am an avid learner. I always want to learn something and it doesn't have to be in the HR world, although that's where my niche is. But John Maxwell has a quote and it's change is inevitable. Growth is optional. Continue to learn because when you quit learning, you start dying. The other is I tell several of my mentees that I've had over the last couple of years, you can dance in the hallway for a short break, but don't stay too long because doors are opening.

SPEAKER_00 13:02

That's good. Well, Mary, before we go, tell people how they can get a hold of you if they have their own HR questions.

SPEAKER_02 13:07

I work at CARC here in town. You are more than welcome to call the office. I am on LinkedIn and my cell number is posted just about everywhere. But if you need it, it is 386-688-2659. Perfect. Thank you, Mary. Absolutely. Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_00 13:22

Thank you again to Security Safe for their support of the Gateway Connection podcast. And until next time, don't forget to subscribe, leave us a review, and share it with a friend. For ways to stay connected, be sure to visit the links in the show notes, and we'll catch you here next time on the Gateway Connection podcast.